JM: Dr. Joseph Mercola
DC: Dawson Church JM: Welcome, everyone. This is Dr. Mercola helping you take control of your health. Today we are joined by Dawson Church, who has written a new book, Mind to Matter: The Astonishing Science of How Your Brain Creates Material Reality, that is going to explore some very interesting topics that we’ll discuss in a few minutes. You may know Dawson from a previous interview I did with him on his work on the field of Emotional Freedom Techniques (EFTs). He’s clearly one of the leading researchers in EFT, and has brought a level of scientific legitimacy to the value of this powerful tool. Welcome and thank you for joining us today.
DC: Joe, thanks for having me again. It’s wonderful to be here, and to be part of your team and support your work.
JM: Alright. Well, it’s a great book. Interesting. I think we – Maybe if we can just open up on a few things, like if you can discuss the story that’s relayed in your book on how writing the book occurred and how you got a publisher. Actually, we share the same publisher, Hay House Publishing.
JM: That’s really exciting. It revolves around serendipity. Maybe you can describe serendipity and discuss this experience, because it really is quite profound and novel. You would never think in a million years something like this would happen.
DC: You wouldn’t. I was actually one of those people who was very focused on the effects of energy therapies in the physical body. I did the first triple-lined, randomized control trial on cortisol levels, and showing how EFT affects cortisol levels. I’ve been very focused on immunoglobulins, brainwaves, hormones and all the things that we can measure in the body. Then I have some friends who were kind of more on the energy end of the spectrum. I have a friend in Harvard who’s a psychiatrist and says, “Yeah, Dawson. But it’s the energy that’s making those molecules be the way they are.” I was always a little skeptical about that. But with him and others, Dean Radin, Rollin McCraty, all these people we all know, they all said, “Dawson, it’s the energy.” There is really a direct chain of causation between our thoughts and things. But I thought, “When I look at all the links in that chain, I’m sure I’ll find a lot of broken links.” I began to look at the studies, the primary research. Every single step in that chain from thought to think – Joe, I was just blown away. There were no broken links. You’re going to show every single step in that chain from thought to thing with peer-reviewed journal publications, often dozens of them. It’s just remarkable to me how our thoughts literally create things in our bodies and all around us.
JM: Yes. I think maybe the more correct term, or the term you use in the book, is called synchronicities. Can you describe a series of synchronicities that occurred that led you to writing the book?
]DC: Yes. All kinds of things had happened for the book to occur. I was so amazed. Just one tiny one was that I was working on the chapter where – In fact, there’s a chapter on synchronicity. Initially, I thought, when I did the proposal for Hay House, I thought, “Okay. I know Carl Jung wrote a book on this. I know it happened in my life pretty often. I’m sure that I’ll have some great stories to tell about people’s lives and synchronous events in their lives.” I thought it would be a short chapter, just a few stories. They’ll cover synchronicity. It’s the longest chapter in the book. It’s now packed with science. One of those synchronicities, just one of many, was that I was writing this chapter. I wanted to understand these things called “field line resonances.” These are scientific concepts. The earth is like a giant magnet. It has a North Pole and South Pole. But it has these lines of magnetic flux around the planet. As a solo wind goes by the Earth, it literally plucks these magnetic force lines, like strings on a violin. I want to know more about this really fascinating but very complex subject. I was speaking at a conference with Dr. Joe Dispenza. He invited me to talk at one of his conferences. I flew down to Cancun to do that. I discovered I double-booked myself that weekend. I was supposed to speak both in Cancun, which is in the Caribbean, and also in San Rafael, California, the other side of the continent. I inadvertently double-booked myself. I had to speak in Cancun on the Saturday, jump on a plane Sunday morning, fly to the Bay area, speak in San Rafael. After my talk, they put me on a science panel. On the science panel was Rollin McCraty, who had just done the most remarkable piece of research, the authoritative paper on field line resonance. He told me all about it. All throughout writing the book, synchronicity, a piece of information is found by a lab that I needed with this whole big project together, explaining how our thoughts literally are shifting molecules, atoms and even the four fundamental forces of physics around us.
JM: Let’s get a tangible example for people. You share a really interesting one in your book about finding your lost keys when you’re in Hawaii. DC: That was uncanny. I go to this place often in Hawaii called Poipu. It has a big bay. It has a turtle colony on a reef about a quarter mile off shore. I love swimming there. The water’s between 7 and 12 feet deep. On one trip, I was on a tight deadline. I was putting all my scuba and snorkeling equipment into the back of a jeep. I drive to wherever I was going. I then swim for a while, maybe an hour, maybe two hours, throw it back in the jeep and head back to the hotel. On this particular day, it was late in the afternoon. I joined my swim. I snorkeled all over this big bay. I got back to the Jeep, put my hands in my pocket to grab the keys. No keys. I realized that I not only got the car keys in there, I clipped the hotel key and the condo key to the car keys. So, now, my keys were lost and I thought I should get back to the water and try and find them. I spent about an hour. No. I didn’t panic. That’s the big thing. I talk a lot in the book about synchronous mind and being in synchrony with the universe. But I got into that state. It’s the synchrony of heart coherence, feeling totally fine, no panic. I swam around this bay looking for them. But again, this is a big bay. I’m looking for two tiny keys lost in the coral 10 to 12 feet deep. There’s no logical way of finding them. But my intuition said, “Let’s do this.” And then as dusk began to fall, these father and three sons, teenagers, got into the water for a last swim before the daylight failed. My intuition said, “Just go talk to them.” I swam up to these four men. I said to them, “You guys have been diving down to the bottom. I’ve been noticing you, seeing you dive to the bottom. Did you, by chance, find anything in the coral down there?” The youngest boy held up my keys. The chances of that happening are infinitesimally small. But when those things happen to you, Joe, again and again and again and again and again, it’s like the universe saying to you, “Hey. Pay attention. Something’s going on here.” Synchronicity, when we’re in sync, when we’re in that state of a heart coherence, when we meditate, when we tap away our stress, we enter that space of what I call, “nonlocal mind.” In the nonlocal mind, we have access to information we don’t have at a level of local mind. I begin the book and end the book with this really powerful plea to make that your life. That you aren’t living your life just kind of limited by what you see at the commission of your local mind, that you open yourself to meditation every day to the mystery of the nonlocal mind. It’s making me – the Earth rotates. It’s making the birds migrate to various parts of the world. It’s helping the humpback whales go from the equator to the poles. Nonlocal mind is doing all kinds of miracles in science in our lives and nature all the time. If we just open ourselves to that level of information, we gain access to levels of consciousness knowing that is far beyond the ones we have at the level of our small, little local minds. JM: Would this be similar to a flow state that you’re describing?
DC: Absolutely. Athlete in flow. The interesting thing or two is as I hook people up to EEGs, without using magnetic resonance imaging (MRI) as well, we find that the athlete in the flow state is in this remarkable state of phase, where their brainwaves are in phase. In the book, I have examples of electroencephalographies (EEGs) of people not in phase. If you look at the EEG of somebody who’s angry or frustrated or processing a negative emotion, you find that their brain waves are really not in step. But if you allow the EEG of that athlete in flow, all of their brainwaves are in synchrony. If you look at the brainwaves of a Tibetan monk, who spent 10,000 hours meditating, that monk is in synchrony. If you look up the brainwaves of a Franciscan nun, who has had these transformational, transcendent experiences of oneness with the divine, their waves are in synchrony. If you look at the brainwaves of somebody, like an artist or a pianist, a musician, who is in that state of composing a masterpiece, their brainwaves are in synchrony. The scientist having an epiphany in the lab, his or her brain is in synchrony. I have one story about affecting matter, where there’s this kid who was assigned to a lab at Massachusetts Institute of Technology (MIT), a young undergraduate. This is a lab where they have one particular rite of passage. Their rite of passage was that they had to learn to precipitate sodium crystals out of a super-saturated solution. It was really hard to make this happen. The lab knew that this was a task that everyone there had to do, but it was so difficult. Many people really struggled with this for a long time. [—–10:00—–] This young student was assigned to the lab, arrived there. He knew that this had to be done, but nobody told had him it was hard. He just did it. The lab supervisor came by and saw. On his first day, he’d done this. He said, “How did you do that?” He said, “It’s easy,” and did it again. This kid just could precipitate those sodium crystals out of that solution easily every time, because no one had told him that it was hard. Those people are in this flow state with their brain waves in synchrony: writers, creators, monks, nuns, people in spiritual states, people doing extreme sports or flow athletes. All these people, what they have in common is what I call “synchronous mind.” You hook them up to an EEG. It’s not a figure of speech, it’s literally a flow state. You could actually measure the brain, and then recreate that. It’s not a mystery anymore. We know the formula. We could reproduce the formula. We can train anybody to acquire that kind of a state.
JM: What does the flow state actually look like or the synchronous state on the EEG? Is it like a 19 to 21 channel EEG and you’ve got all the different channels in the same – They’re coherent and going up and down all at the same time? Which is very different than a typical EEG.
DC: Very different. They’re all going up and down at the same time. They look like they’re in sync. In an EEG of somebody who was just in a neutral state – or certainly a negative emotion will do this – if I use my fingers to track over here. Their brainwaves are going to look very jagged, like the peaks of the Himalayas or peaks of the Rockies. But if somebody is in a coherent state, you’ll see that all the parts of their brain are functioning. The worst is stress. Prolonged stress produces havoc in people’s ability to process information. You see this kind of pattern. You can tell right away, when you hook someone up to an EEG while it’s going on, what we also see happening is in a [inaudible 12:21] of people, we have lots of lowfrequency waves – delta. There are two or three things in the book, Joe, which I became very curious about. One was about how energy shapes matter. But I was not that interested in exogenous fields, fields outside of our bodies, because I just didn’t have the space in the book to cover those. But I became incredibly interested in what our own brainwaves do to our cells. And so, I limit the first half of the book talking about what the waves you generate in meditation do to your cells. It is absolutely stunning. Like delta, those slow delta waves, early EEG equipment – In fact, up until a few years ago, we never even made equipment to measure really slow delta waves below one cycle per second. For example, there’s a study showing that telomere regeneration is sparked by 0.19 cycles per second. I have this graph showing there are these 10 telomerase factors being produced by your body. There’s no action at 0.10 hertz, 0.111, 0.112, 0.113, 1.14, 1.15, 1.16, 1.17, .119 – Bam. Huge spike in telomerase regeneration, and drops back down at 0.20. This is just one-fifth of a second in terms of brainwave production, yet it’s stimulating massive telomerase regeneration in our cells, in the delta band. We see huge improvements, huge increases in delta amplitude when you hit the right type of meditation. I was at a workshop, an EFT workshop. We were meditating. We did EFT with having four people hooked up in each corner of the room to EEGs as they did all this work. The neuroscientist who was running the experiment was sitting on the corner watching the screens. At lunchtime, I checked in with her and said, “What did you see off the first day?” She was beside herself. She said. “Dawson, I was watching delta so big I’d literally zoom my screen out to four times the aspect ratio to capture that much delta. I’ve never seen that much delta before.” That was enough. I had to zoom out 16 times to see the delta these people were making. Again, huge, huge amplitudes in the delta bond, which is a T-band sparking regeneration of important cells and molecules in our bodies.
JM: I’m just curious as to how you measured the telomerase activity. I had the opportunity to sit with Bill Anders, who is the discoverer of the telomerase enzyme, and developed a pretty close friendship with him a few weeks ago. Is that something you did in-vitro or is it in-vivo? Are you actually doing blood tests for that? How did you assay that enzyme? DC: Yeah. That was a study done by somebody else, not by me. There was a huge amount of data that they gathered. All I picked out was one graph in their study to pile it in the book. That one graph is showing how these 10 factors, which come together to show our level of telomerase production are amplified by that one little frequency in the band, so these are called physical frequency windows. I dug through all the literature. Some of it’s by pretty well-known researchers and science nature publishing this stuff. Other times it’s the Bohemian Academy of Sciences. They’re typewritten reports. This stuff is so obscure you have to find some of it in these far-flung places. Other times, it’s pretty mainstream research. But it’s all based on those frequency windows. What the certain frequency that we generate during meditation does to our bodies. Another example is theta, for example. There are studies showing that certain theta frequencies stimulate stem cell production. Literally, the certain frequency, maybe 7.5 hertz, 7.8 hertz, 7.8 hertz is a magic frequency. It’s the
. It’s associated with all kinds of positive changes in our bodies, if somebody would lay out all the studies that show how pervasive the changes are as a result of these frequencies we generate naturally in meditation.
JM: Okay. Great. Thanks. As a viewer, you might be wondering why we’re talking about this, because there are some biological health benefits. I think one of them is going to be in the treatment in cancer. We have 1,600 people – yes, 1,600 people – dropping dead from cancer. Not getting the diagnosis, just dropping dead from cancer in the United States. But if you live in China, that number is 8,100 people dying every day. It’s very clear in my mind. There’s just no question that the metabolic theory of cancer is really valid. It’s a biological, physiological process to optimize that treatment. But the leading cancer biologists in the world, Dr. Thomas Seyfried, who established that theory, is really adamant about that the variable that you need to account for is stress and cortisol. If you fail to do that, even with the best metabolic physiological therapies, you will fail. That’s one reason: Cancer. But there are many others. Before we discuss those though, I want you to give us a simple – You could take the sequence on how you want to describe it. But I really want to get your recommendations and advice on how we enter into this coherent flow state.
DC: Yeah. That is the crucial thing. How do you enter into the state and how do you do it quickly? Like I’ve been intrigued by these studies after those months. But Richard Davidson did this. [Inaudbile 12:22] been doing these. But again, these are people who have been meditating for 10,000 plus hours in their lifetimes. You and I can’t do that. No one can be in the Western world, who has to make payroll, do their job, raise their kids and possibly meditate, if they had the time. How do we get there really quickly? What I did almost accidentally about 10 to 15 years ago was I thought, “What would happen if you combined the quick coherence technique with HeartMath and some basic biofeedback from Les Fehmi from Princeton, who is one of the earliest. This guy was doing biofeedback before I was born, and that was a long time ago. Les Fehmi on biofeedback from Princeton, to combine that with tapping, with mindfulness. You put them all together in a package. I did that. But now testing that, that’s a method called eco-meditation. I just basically put it on the shelf because I was so focused on getting EFT, Emotional Freedom Techniques, into healthcare, into primary care. But now that EFT has been approved by the U.S. Department of Veterans Affairs (VA), that took 10 years. It was a lot of effort, a lot of work, a lot of struggle. But it’s been done. It’s now being used in [inaudible 19:33]. It’s such a widespread use. I will return my attention back to ecomedication. JM: Wait, wait, wait. Before we continue with eco-meditation, because I definitely want you to discuss that, you and I have known about EFT for decades, but there are a number of people here who don’t know what EFT is. Let’s just give a brief description of that. [—–20:00—–]
DC: Yes. EFT has been around for a long time. In the 1970s, a psychologist called Roger Callahan was experimenting with applying acupressure to the body for psychological ailments, like phobias, anxiety and depression. I did a series of randomized controlled trials of EFT with war veterans, people who were having flashbacks, nightmares and so on. What we find what happens is that if they use acupressure, so again, with oriental medicine, the use of acupuncture is there to correct energy imbalances in the body, to correct imbalances in energy flows of the body. That’s putting the needle into the acupuncture points. But acupressure is something like tapping, rubbing or applying pressure to the points. When we, for example, do that with veterans, we find that they quickly lose symptoms, like flashbacks, nightmares and intrusive thoughts. It’s now over 100 clinical trials with EFT showing that the simply acupressure-based method rapidly alleviates depression, post-traumatic stress disorder (PTSD), phobias and anxiety, and does it really fast. Essentially, the EFT is thinking about the bad stuff in your life, whether are you facing it, not associating or pushing it away, remembering the childhood bullying, remembering the psychological trauma of, say, a car crash or, in the case of veterans, of combat. You remember the bad stuff, and then you apply acupressure to these acupuncture meridians yourself. In doing that rapidly calms the emotional part of the brain. The person now has the memory, but no longer has the emotional triggering. Like in an MRI study now – It’s not published yet. It’s coming out soon, next year. But a colleague of mine did this with obese women. When these obese women thought about the food they craved, their emotional brain lit up like crazy. Their whole midbrain, limbic system was highly active in their MRIs. We’re thinking about chocolate or cake or sweets or pasta, whatever it might be. They had a big emotional reaction. She taught them EFT. A couple of weeks later they went back into that same scanner. They thought about the chocolate, the cake or whatever it was they craved. The radiologist running the experiment said to my colleague, “What did you do to these women? I can’t believe that they’re thinking about all the same cues, and their emotional brains are completely calm.” You may remove the emotional tagging from whether it’s a trauma or a food. The emotional brain gets calm. That’s what EFT does. That’s the effect of acupressure does on the body. This is a very simple method, human endorsing core. All those 20 years now, it’s really effective and it really works. JM: Thanks for the explanation. We’ll go back to eco medicine or eco-meditation in a bit. But, just a quick aside is I recently found out of a book, Wired for Healing, written by Annie Hopper. I suspect you know who she is. The reason I mention it is – I’m interviewing her in a few weeks. Is that she really – Because we don’t really understand the mechanism. I mean EFT is – My mind is nothing short of magical. It’s the closest thing to magic I’ve ever seen from clinical medicine. But we don’t really understand why. There are some theories, but she lends some pretty – She doesn’t talk about EFT in her book, but she talks about this limbic trauma to the brain. Her program takes a lot longer than the EFT does. But essentially, it resolves these connections that essentially get triggered every time. I’m thinking that it’s part of the reason why EFT works. Are you familiar with Hopper’s work? DC: I’m not. But generally speaking, anytime that you resolve trauma with any method successfully, it has a big effect on the body. You can see cortisol go down. We just published in the Journal of Integrative Health. We did EFT with people for a week. It was a weeklong intensive, with meditation in the morning, EFT during the day. Their baseline of cortisol, Joe, went down over the course of that week. Their baseline cortisol dropped by 37 percent in a week. In fact, a lab I used to do cortisol tests – they know me now. But 10 years ago, I was getting my first cortisol samples, I was supposed to get my results back in a week. This is a lab called Sabre Labs in Capistrano, California. I mailed them my cortisol samples from my very, very first cortisol study. I was supposed to get my samples back to report at the medical conference, and they didn’t arrive. The results didn’t arrive in the lab that week, or the next week. The following week, I phoned the head of the company and said, “This is unacceptable. What’s going on here?” The head of the company said, “Dr. Church, I’m so sorry. But I think we’re having an equipment malfunction. We’re running your samples again and again and again. We know from doing hundreds of thousands of cortisol tests that cortisol cannot fall that fast.” Now they know. They get my samples and they’re like, “Oh yeah. More from Dr. Church. We know the drops in cortisol.” One week in this last study being published soon, cortisol dropped by 37 in a week. What happens when cortisol goes down is it’s like a teeter-totter. When cortisol goes down, DHEA goes up, because they make the same two precursors. When you reduce cortisol, you then release those two precursors and dehydroepiandrosterone (DHEA) goes up. You have an improvement in all kinds of beneficial enzymes. We also measured in this last study immunoglobulins. Joe, in that one week, their baseline immunoglobulins rose by 113 percent, more than doubling of immune-functioning markers in just a week. It’s amazing how it reduces stress by whatever method –
JM: I’m assuming this would result in a decrease in the sympathetic nervous system and activation of parasympathetics. DC: Yes. You measure that with an EEG. Yeah.
JM: Okay. Great. Thank you for indulging me in these tangents. Why don’t we go back now to eco-meditation? Because that is the tool that you’re recommending to achieve these marvelous states and these dramatic reductions in cortisol and all the amazing benefits that that provides. DC: Yes. We know now, because we’ve looked at this in peak performers, in athletes, in business people, in financial experts, in people in meditative monasteries and nunneries and people who are really focused on meditation in the long term. We know that meditation has these effects, but how do you get there quickly? You can spend an hour with your eyes closed and not be meditating. Or you can spend two minutes and enter a deep state. How do you get there? I’m focused on that really intently now. One of the definitions I used in the study with about 550 people at a Dr. Joe Dispenza workshop was – We define meditation as the ability to sustain an alpha state for 15 seconds or more. That seems to be a very short amount of time. But if you keep yourself in an alpha state and prevent yourself from dropping into a non-alpha state, then that’s the magic formula. Actually, in the book, I have a number of illustrations showing you exactly what these states look like. We hook people up to a machine. I’m trying to hold this up so you can see. It looks like that. They’re hooked up. We can see the subject over there. We can see her brainwaves on the screen.
JM: That’s a nice big, 60-inch screen.
DC: Sim. Enorme. Vemos suas ondas cerebrais, hemisfério esquerdo e direito por lá e como ela está ligada. Como eles mudam é dramático. Esta é apenas uma função cerebral normal por aqui. Ondas lentas no fundo, delta. Ondas gama rápidas no topo, bastante beta, que é a onda de assinatura do seu cérebro pensante. Mas observe o alfa aqui. Alfa no meio do intervalo por aqui, não muito. Então, temos essa pessoa que pensa em algo ruim: o acidente de carro, o estresse no combate, o que quer que seja. Vemos essas chamas, chamas enormes dessas ondas altas, como betas. Agora eles estão na mente dos macacos. Eles estão muito, muito chateados. Você pode ver como esses dois gráficos são diferentes. E então aqui, após o tratamento, vemos essas grandes melhorias, nas quais eles estão tendo crises de alfa. Eles não têm alfa aqui. Eles têm esse grande surto de alfa, muito mais delta e teta. Eles estão tendo gama aqui. Então, enormes mudanças em suas ondas cerebrais. Podemos apenas medir o quão bem eles estão. Podemos ver quando eles não estão indo bem. Podemos ver por que o hemisfério esquerdo ou direito está desequilibrado e podemos começar a corrigi-los. A ecomeditação coloca você nesse estado em cerca de quatro minutos. Você basicamente imita a respiração, a postura daquele monge tibetano de 10.000 horas. Se você faz o que eles fazem, se imita sem crença, sem superestrutura espiritual ou apenas faz o físico, as pistas fisiológicas do seu corpo, você entra no que chamamos de “estado mental desperto”. Vou levar quartos cheios de pessoas que tiveram falhas na meditação. Eles apenas seguem estes sete passos simples e estão lá. É muito legal. Estamos descobrindo qual é a fórmula. Agora, qualquer um pode ir lá rapidamente.
JM: Você pode descrever um pouco mais sobre as etapas?
DC: Sure. The first step is to simply relax your tongue on the floor of your mouth. When you do that, there’s a nerve – The hypoglossal nerve that runs from your tongue into this nerve plexus and the vagal nerve. You relax your tongue on the floor of your mouth. That tells your vagal nerve that you aren’t under threat and your whole body starts to relax, because you can’t get mad or upset. [—–30:00—–] Just try it. Try to relax your tongue, then try to get mad at somebody. You’re angry. You’re upset. You can’t do it. Because it causes the vagal nerve to be in relaxation. It’s that simple. Just one little cue. Then you do the HeartMath quick coherence technique and you slow your breathing down to six seconds per in breath, and six seconds per out breath. It’s five breaths per minute. You imagine breathing in and out through your heart. Now, that puts you, first of all, into heart coherence and deep coherence. I did this because hard math told me that what happens is that when they take meditators and they then tell them to meditate, they drop out of coherence. I wanted to have a way of meditating that puts you into coherence. That’s what that six-second breathing does and being in your heart does. Then I have you picture a big empty space behind your eyes, because in the Princeton Biofeedback Lab, they found that they could put people through a long, complicated, expensive biofeedback training or they could have them picture a big empty space behind their eyes. If you just do that, you’re in alpha. It’s so simple. We don’t need a machine or a lot of training. We don’t need anything extra to yourself to do this. You do the breathing, and then finally you picture a beam of love going from you to somebody who makes you feel wonderful. It could be a saint. It could be a family member. It can be someone you love. But you feel this beam of love in your heart. Again, we see big, big flares of delta and theta when people do that. Then gamma starts to kick in. Gamma is the wave of happiness, and also the wave of integration. Most people don’t have a gamma flare that lasts more than two seconds. These Tibetans, they’ll sit there for an hour having no [inaudible 31:57]. After a week of meditation, you live in that same state where you’re having these big flares, all these integrative brainwaves called gamma at the very top of the band, and then people feel totally wonderful. Now, the cool thing that happens if you do this every day, every morning, then you start to shift your baseline of things like immunoglobulin and cortisol. Now, you’re lowering your cortisol. Your body is reaching a new homeostasis at that lower level. It’s getting used to that wonderful neurochemical flood. There are six hormones in neurotransmitters you can’t get any other way in the same ratios, other than by meditation. You get all six of them. You have the pleasure hormones, the reward neurotransmitters. They always flood your brain. You feel that good. Then you get used to feeling good. Now, it becomes your new normal state. We have one lady who wrote to us, actually, just this last month. She said, “I’m a stressed-out mom. I’m burned out. I’ve been trying meditation. Nothing’s worked for me.” I sat down to do those seven steps. In my mind I thought, ‘I’ll never be able to do this. And then as I did the heart breathing, she said, “I just dissolved into bliss. Tears began to flow down my cheeks. Suddenly, I was at a place I wanted to be all along in my meditation practice.’” Then she said the most important thing, which was that, “I’m now committing to meditating every single day.” Joe, that really is my message and my goal with this new book, Mind to Matter. It’s to inspire people to apply these things. Feel good that one time where they will repeat this every day. JM: That is just magnificent. Thank you for describing that and taking the time to walk us through it. Can you let us know the percentage of people who are successful in doing this? Again, I think you said the time. It’s only takes about four minutes to do this. What would be the optimal frequency if you have the leisure of time? Because most of us have four minutes? We don’t have 10,000 hours to become a Tibetan monk. We have four minutes a day. That’s a pretty small investment. DC: It’s four minutes to induce the state. But to keep them in the state for about 15 or 20 minutes, and then two or three minutes going out of the state. In total, 20 to 30 minutes is optimal. What you do then is you get this new baseline of functioning. If you do this at the start of each day, you then predispose yourself to having a good day. Meditation is this baseline. But you need the EFT as well, because what happens is that 10:30 rolls around, 11:00 rolls around, you get an email from an irate client. Your boss calls you about a project that’s not going well. Something happens that isn’t very good. You need to be able to rapidly restore that good homeostasis. That’s where EFT is so useful. It’s those two things in motion. Now, you mentioned cancer. I had no intention of writing about cancer in Mind to Matter. But in the book, there are so many cancer stories there. I mean I’m getting goosebumps as I think about them, because first of all, they’re animal studies in Chapter 1 about Bill Bengston and several randomized control trials showing that cancer just disappears when you start to use energy techniques. But also the stories of people who apply this. There’s one woman, Joe, who did this, who’s writing a book about it. Her name is Beth Misner. It’s a public story. But last year, in March, she got a breast cancer diagnosis. The tumor was eventually measured at 5 centimeters, 2 inches – a big, big tumor in her right breast. Also, they found that all of the lymph nodes under her right armpit was swollen and inflamed and full of cancerous cells. The cancer has now moved to her limbic system. They also then found three spots of inflammation on her right lung. When the doctor at the cancer hospital told her the diagnosis – she was being treated at MD Anderson in Houston, a famous cancer clinic – the doctor said, “Normally, we’d make an appointment for you to have radiation as soon as possible. That would be next week. But I want you to actually go straight from my office right now to radiation for your first session.” She said, to her credit, “I need time.” She took time. She stepped back, and she got several more opinions. She then said, “You know, I’m not even going to get a biopsy. I’m going to work on this on the level of energy.” She emailed me. She phoned me. She was in a real panic. She said, “Dawson, I’ve had a gene test, and the gene test came back showing I have eight genes that predispose me for cancer.” I said, “Beth, you have 24,000 genes. They’re just in great shape. Let’s start there.” She began to do chi gung intensively. She began to tap intensively. She began to do energy medicine, exercises, and also get energy medicine treatments. She cleaned up her diet. She got rid of all her stress in her life. She did a whole bunch of proactive things to shift herself the energy level. Now, this is March [when] she gets the diagnosis of MD Anderson. By May, scans showed that all the lymph nodes under her right armpit were completely clear, and the tumor shrunk from 5 centimeters to 1.4 centimeters. One of her doctors said, “Well, it looks to me like it’s just necrotic. It’s just dissolving. Her body has removed it.” She, again, just kept on the energy techniques and later on her bloodwork showed not a trace of cancer in her body. That’s the power of using energy. That’s why I urge people, whatever your challenge is, it doesn’t mean this is the right approach for everybody. But pay attention to stress. Pay attention to energy. It’s a hugely rich point over the wellness of your body. JM: Yeah. Thank you for sharing that story. I just want to highlight something that many people may overlook here. It’s a powerful element of the story. Because if you study cancer therapy at a deep level from a natural perspective, you begin to understand that cancer treatments, the treatment kills far more people than the disease itself. One of the things she did was refuse the conventional therapy, which is the needle biopsy, which has clearly been associated with cancer meds, and the radiation, which is probably one of the worst things you can do, at least initially, and probably permanently. I mean there’s probably a role for surgery. But cancer or radiotherapy and chemotherapy are things that should be avoided at all costs. Because they’re just going to set you back and –
DC: Yeah. A heart-wrenching story too with my life is that when I was working on Chapter 1 of the book, my sister-in-law was diagnosed with cancer. My friend, Bill Bengston, who is the professor who teachers this method, has been shown to literally alleviate and make cancer go away in mice. It also works with people. I wanted to hook Bill up with my sister-in-law. I had this really big dilemma. I didn’t want to impose on her treatment choices, but I made sure she had a copy of Bill’s book and my manuscript and knew the options, because Bill says he can’t work on people who’ve gone through chemotherapy and radiation because their immune systems are so compromised that the energy healing doesn’t have anything to latch onto there. My sister-in-law faced this choice, you know? I would have Bill work on her personally, or go with chemotherapy and radiation. She went with chemotherapy and radiation. Unfortunately, she was dead about three months later. The two often don’t mix. You have to make that choice. There’s no one right choice for everybody. I’m not saying this is going to work perfectly for everyone. What I’m saying is look at your energy options. What Mind to Matter shows you is that my consciousness and energy has enormous effect on the matter of your cells. If you’re ignoring that leverage point, you’re ignoring your biggest possible leverage point of your own health. [—–40:00—–]
JM: Yeah. Especially if you integrate that and the avoidance of the radiation and chemotherapy, doing therapies or energy interventions like eco-meditation, and then combining it with metabolic therapies.
DC: Yes. JM: I think that is your best strategy. It would be the one I would personally choose for myself virtually when I need this closely. DC: Yeah. The other thing is I caution people on the book, “Okay. EFT works wondrous. Meditation’s fabulous. You’ll feel much better after you do these things. But don’t dare think that it’s only energy when there are things like nutrition.” You need the best of all worlds. You need both of those things to be optimizing.
JM: Thank you for developing a process that is relatively simple to do, inexpensive. You don’t have to pay thousands of dollars to get your mantra. You can get the same benefits as you thought doing the research in EEG. Interesting that you’re working with Dispenza because he has some pretty amazing anecdotal healings in his events, which consists of thousands of people. Essentially, it will result from applying these types of meditation therapies or interventions.
DC: Yes. I’ve been to several of those events and worked with teams of neuroscientists. We measured various things. One really cool study was a gene study I did with Joe. Joe funded this very ambitious study where they actually measured the whole full-range gene expression in people in one of his workshops. We found that there were significant changes in eight genes. In all those eight genes, five had to do with cancer suppression. There were genes that literally suppressed esophageal cancer, colon cancer, stomach cancer, breast cancer and prostate cancer. All of those fat groups were upregulated by being in Joe’s meditation workshop for four or five days. It was having profound effects on brain function, and also epigenetically on gene expression.
JM: Powerful stuff. You’re doing some good work there. Now, you had mentioned the importance of doing this on a regular basis, because there’s this element of brain, which is called neuroplasticity or its ability to change with time. It’s like exercise. The more you participate in an activity, the stronger the neurological connections become, and the more likely we are to receive the benefits. Can you expand on that for a bit?
DC: Yeah. Neuroplasticity is like the hardware in our brains. The channels that conduct information, the neurons and the synapses that carry the flow of energy of information in our brains. The ones you use the most get developed, just like the muscle you use most gets developed. But the speed of this is extraordinary. Within one hour of repeated stimulation, where there was just one synapse, now there are two. That’s in one hour of repeat stimulation. If you stimulate that neural bundle for weeks, days, months and years, it grows much bigger. Eventually, the software of your consciousness literally creates the hardware of your brain. One of those stunning stories about this I have in Chapter 1 is about a TV reporter called Graham Phillips who is kind of a hard-bitten skeptic. But he heard the benefits of meditation, so he decided to try out a meditation program for eight weeks, an eight-week program. He went into Monash University. The experts there examined him minutely. They did MRIs on every single region of his brain – very, very detailed, high-resolution MRIs of his brain regions – after which he began to meditate regularly and be mindful of the course of his day. After two weeks, he found, behaviorally, he was much less stressed. After eight weeks, he went back into the lab. Again, they spent a whole day going over all of these tests with him. They also got a second MRI to measure the volume of different parts of his brain. Joe, this number sounds to crazy, it’s almost like science fiction, but they examined a part of the hippocampus, the memory or learning center that has to do with the regulation of emotion. This is when you get – When you’re in traffic and you want to get impatient, when you’re standing in line at the grocery store, and you feel upset with people, when somebody does something or says something that upsets you, how do you fly off the handle? Or do you have a good ability to regulate those emotions? The dentate gyrus is a part of the hippocampus that coordinates that network of neurons that regulates emotion. They found that in eight weeks, his dentate gyrus, the volume of tissue in the dentate gyrus grew by 22.8 percent. Twenty-two percent growth in neural tissue volume in the emotional regulation part of his brain in only eight weeks. That’s the speed at which our brains are literally remodeling themselves based on our consciousness, just on our thoughts, our feelings and our ability to be centered and give ourselves peace. It’s not just a feel-good practice. It’s literally reshaping the content inside your skull. JM: Getting back to eco-meditation with respect to some of the pragmatic implementation strategies, what time of day do you find it best? As long as you’re doing it, it doesn’t matter. But if you find that people are more successful in implementing this, they’d do it in the morning, when they first wake up or before they go to bed? I think most could have a difficulty trying to carve time out in the middle of the day.
DC: Yes. I advocate doing it early in the day, because when you wake up, your brainwaves go from – lot’s of delta and theta when you sleep. Delta is the brain wave of not a rapid-eye movement, deep sleep, theta is the brainwave of rapid eye movement sleep. When you’re sleeping, you have lots of theta and delta. You have also quit a big alpha bridge as you start to wake up. The alpha is the middle brainwave between beta and gamma. The slow brainwaves are the theta and delta. If you wake up and the first thing you turn your attention to is being in that alpha state, that dreamy state and meditating, then you capture all benefits of being in that alpha state, that dreamy state and meditating. And then you capture all the benefits of that theta and delta you have when you’re in this sleep state. I see this as that extending that sleep state out into your waking state. Now, most people in our society don’t do that. They wake up in the morning. They start thinking about the day ahead. Many people look at their smartphone or they turn on their laptop. A huge number of people, over 600,000 people, that’s the first thing they do. I can tell you, that will – Whatever you see in your smartphone and Google News will not make you happy.
JM: Imagine that.
DC: Isso não fará com que as pessoas que administram o Google News, a Fox News e a CNN – o trabalho deles não seja fazer você feliz. O trabalho deles é engajá-lo. O trabalho deles é despertar suas emoções. Isso faz você comer muita beta, muita mente de macaco, sem teta, delta e alfa. Você não quer fazer isso consigo mesmo de manhã. Você deve acordar de manhã e depois orientar o que chamamos de mente não-local. Quando você está nesse estado de apenas ser um com o universo, você acorda, entra nesse estado de felicidade e, então, começa o seu dia dessa maneira, condicionando a sincronicidade. Você condiciona o pensamento beta. Em algumas das pesquisas que fiz em Minds to Matter, os pesquisadores descobriram que as pessoas estão – sua capacidade de resolver problemas aumenta 260% quando estão nesse estado. Sua criatividade dobra. Sua produtividade no trabalho aumenta drasticamente. Agora você é um ser humano muito mais produtivo quando finalmente faz isso no trabalho, se investe no início do dia naquele período de meditação. JM: Ok. Outro refinamento sobre a questão. Envolve o reconhecimento da importância do sono. Matthew Walker é um professor em Berkeley, eu acho, muita pesquisa sobre sono. É realmente uma informação surpreendente. Mas, essencialmente, tudo se resume a um ponto em que o sono é muito mais importante do que pensávamos. Você quer otimizar isso. Mas parece-me que os benefícios da eco-meditação são uma vida realmente aglomerada, onde há muito pouco tempo livre que você pode sacrificar um pouco do seu sono e adicionar a ecomeditação a ele para provavelmente obter o mesmo benefício que você foram para dormir. você tem alguma opinião sobre isso? DC: Sim. Existem muitos ditados na meditação. Tenho muita sorte de conhecer mestres em meditação que me dão uma compreensão profunda disso. Um dos truques em todo o mundo da meditação. Novamente, essas são tradições de milhares de anos. Dizem que uma hora de meditação vale duas horas de sono. JM: Uau. DC: Isso reconhecerá que você precisa fazer isso de manhã cedo. Outra frase do mesmo mestre é – acho que ele diz que: “Os deuses vêm à Terra todas as manhãs às 5 da manhã com seus presentes para a humanidade e saem às 6:30 com as cestas ainda cheias.” Porque ninguém está acordando tirar proveito deles. [—– 50:00 —–] Quando você acorda – foi muito difícil. Eu tive que me treinar para acordar às 5:30 da manhã. Eu medito por cerca de 45 minutos. Joe, as coisas começaram a mudar. Novamente, seus níveis de energia começam a mudar. Sua criatividade melhora. JM: Há quanto tempo foi isso? DC: Sim. Eu conto a história em outro livro, na verdade. Mas eu estava em uma crise real na minha vida quando eu tinha 45 anos. Eu tinha um negócio que estava indo muito bem e um deles estava indo muito mal. Eu também era mãe solteira de dois filhos. Eu só estava correndo esfarrapado. Eu estava tão estressado. Um dia conversei com um treinador sobre minha situação. Ela disse: “Bem, com que frequência você medita?” Eu disse: “De jeito nenhum tenho tempo para meditar.” Quando eu disse essas palavras, Joe, elas pairavam no ar na minha frente. “Não tenho tempo para meditação.” Eles são como um balão de pensamento em um desenho animado. Eu apenas – A resposta que eu precisava era começar a meditar. Comecei a definir o despertador uma hora mais cedo, porque meus filhos precisavam estar na escola às 7:30 da manhã. Eu tinha que acordar às 5:30. Eu estava fazendo uma hora todos os dias. Mas de repente, minha vida começou a mudar. Tudo começou a mudar e mudar para melhor. Eu acho que cedo é bom. Para mim, isso fez um mundo de diferença. Saí do emprego sem saída em que estava. Comecei uma nova carreira. Eu comecei a escrever Minha vida romântica, minha vida financeira, minha saúde, todo tipo de coisa mudou com esse compromisso. Vale a pena acertar o despertador meia hora mais cedo. Além disso, eu realmente acredito em ir para a cama em um momento decente. Eu não acho que [inaudível 51:51] à noite funciona. Acho que todos os seus conselhos em seu site sobre as telas serem ruins para nós tarde da noite são verdadeiros. Uma hora de dormir razoável, sem tempo de tela, antes de ir para a cama, que estimula todos os tipos de alterações benéficas ao seu corpo. Meditações coloca você no caminho certo a cada dia. A EFT leva você de volta ao caminho quando está estressado. De repente, você descobre que tem um ponto altamente rico em muitos problemas em sua vida, tudo começa a mudar.
JM: Quanto tempo levou para você perceber a diferença quando começou com esse processo? Foram algumas semanas? Alguns meses?
DC: Within a year, I finished a book that a publisher had been to write for about 15 years. I finished my Ph.D., which I started about 20 years before that. My financial life began to flourish. Within a year, everything was different. Within probably three or four weeks, we began to see changes. That two months in a Graham Phillips study is about right. Now, what research also shows is that even a small dose of meditation, like 10 minutes, that begins with pretty much measurable improvements in as little as 10 days. Doing half an hour is great, over the course of a year or more is wonderful. But 10 minutes in 10 days will usually begin to show you a difference. JM: Well, that’s good, because we don’t want to give people misinformation or false expectations and do it for two or three days or a week even and not notice any benefits. They’ll go, “This is hokey, just like I thought it was,” initially, and then they’re going to stop. I think the recommendation is to hang in there. Try it for a few months or so, and then notice the benefits or the changes. DC: Well, try it. But try a method of meditation that works for you. Like, eco-meditation is so simple because you have to relax your tongue and you just breathe in that six-second rhythm. You picture a big empty space behind your eyes so you don’t have to still your mind, because that’s what meditation teachers often say, “Just still your mind.” I’ve never been able to do that to my mind. JM: The monkey mind. DC: My mind? Are you kidding? JM: Of course. DC: Something physiological that gives you these cues that doesn’t rely on any kind of ability to change the way you are in a substantial way mentally or emotionally, because that’s a big challenge.
JM: I’m wondering if you can give us an example of the EFT strategy you would recommend. Because you’re advising that you combine that with eco-meditation for the stresses that will come up later in the day. Can you show us or recommend how you would implement that EFT intervention?
DC: Yeah. A brilliant psychiatrist after World War II, Joseph Wolpe, came up with a scale used in EFT, called the “subjective units of distress scale,” SUD. He was working with veterans of World War II. He was trying to help them get over shell shock and what we now call PTSD. He used that scale to measure how successful he was. Zero on the scale means no emotional triggering, 10 means “I’m about as upset as I possibly could be.” When you’re going through the day and you get to an event that happens, the email you read, the phone call you have, the personal interaction you encounter, your SUD score tends to get up high. Now you’re a 3, 4, 5, 6, or maybe even a 10. That’s when you tap. In eco-meditation, initially, you’ll find that when you get done with that in the morning, you’ll be down to a low number. But then when things happen to dysregulate you – Again, surely your cortisol is now rising. Your DHEA is falling. Your serotonin and dopamine levels are getting out of whack. All these things are happening internally because you feel bad. Your SUD score is rising. When that happens during the day, you tap. Then usually within two minutes, you would see your SUD go down to a low number, often a zero. Then you go about your day. Now, you’re much calmer, and you’re able to proactively move through your day with this little technique to help yourself recover. Recovery time is pretty fast. After a while, again, you develop a different and new homeostasis, where your irritability, your resentment levels, your level of guilt, shame, anger and blame, all of these negative emotions has to go way down. You then get used to feeling that good. You want to then feel good, so you keep on doing those techniques. It’s a self-reinforcing loop. In The Genie in Your Genes, I call this the “epigenetic health cycle,” where you do these things, you feel better. You then do more of them, you feel better still. Bad things happen, you correct yourself, and you have this positive upwards spiral. JM: That’s just the standard EFT protocol. “Even though I’m feeling whatever, I totally love and forgive myself,” and you just tap on all the points.
DC: Yes. That’s what you do. It’s that simple.
JM: Perfect. Alright. One of the areas you also discussed in your book is that healing can be learned. We talked about the value of eco-meditation for cancer, but it’s just not cancer. I mean it’s for pretty much any disease. Wouldn’t it be nice to have a strategy that can help us heal? Can you expand on that concept and how we learned this and what type of conditions it’s used for? DC: Yeah. I was just blown away. I would look at brainwaves, and the research is showing what they do in the body. For example, looking at frequency, like in the middle of the theta band, we have the 7.81-hertz frequency. I began looking at 107.8 for [inaudible 57:31] cells. I came across these studies, mostly done by electrical engineers. They had no thought of healing at all. But they would pass 7.81 hertz through a cell culture and say, “Gee, isn’t this cool? The DNA replication is getting much more effective at that level.” The first I looked at and talked about in Mind to Matter, for example, certain frequencies stimulate the reproduction of stem cells. Very specific frequency windows make your stem cells divide, and you get more stem cells. But other frequency of the meditation make them migrate. I need three things with stem cells. You need replication. But you need migration to be able to travel to where they’re required. Then you need a third thing, which is adhesion. These three different frequencies found in meditation: one makes them divide, one makes them migrate, and one makes stick – adhesion – to where they’re needed, so they can repair parts of your body. One example of these kinds of improvements. In the book, though, in the end of Chapter 2, I have a list of the conditions that are treated successfully with energy healing. I made a list of this on my non-profit website. It’s a long list of over 600 studies. I made sure that everything from A to Z – Alzheimer’s, attentiondeficit/hyperactivity disorder (ADHD), addictions, all these A ailments, all of them are improved by energy therapies. It all goes down the list. It’s amazing that when you regulate your energy, whatever – It’s not working on the disease. The disease is a symptom of the dysregulation of your system, like cancer, for example. Those cancer cells can’t live in a normal healthy body. They only live in a body that is dysregulated. You want to improve all those factors that are dysregulating you, then you’ll see a pervasive upwards spiral and good effect on your health generally. What we train people to do too, in our live workshops, we train people to see their disease as the wake-up call and the message from their body. The pain isn’t something that’s there to annoy you or to hurt you or to compromise your quality of life. It’s a signal. It’s your body saying, “Hey. Pay attention to me. Something’s not right here.” [—–1:00:00—–] If you pay attention to these small little things in your body – we find this with obesity, especially people who are overweight or obese – they quit listening to their body. They try and suppress their pain. They take these things called painkillers, because they don’t want to hear the message from their body. But if you keep ignoring it, eventually your body has to produce a huge big trumpet call for you to pay attention. But if you listen to that little subtle twinge before it becomes a big screaming pain, then if you’re listening to your body, you make friends with your body, you’re accepting and working with those messages from your body. Then suddenly you’re paying attention to them, and then you’re correcting. When it is small, your body doesn’t have to escalate it in some huge disease for you to pay attention. JM: Great. How do you teach your body to learn how to heal? The same process that you discussed earlier with the eco-meditation and the adjunctive use of EFT, when you have these characters or stimuli that increase your distress? DC: The more I learn about the body, the more I see that the body is a healing machine. The body heals naturally. The body automatically heals. You have to do something pretty radical to stop the body from healing. JM: Yeah. That’s just its natural course. DC: When you load it up with sugar, stress and things like that, you get in the way of healing. But your body is just an amazing healing machine, the way cells proliferate. Our bodies are made to heal. All you have to do is get out of the way. Get out of the way by stopping things in your mouth, stopping things in your mind, stopping things in your environment that hurt you and don’t work for you. But if you just quit doing the bad stuff, then your body is naturally going to heal. Now sometimes I do believe – I’ve had people in my EFT workshops, for example. Not a lot, but a few people who I believe do need an external stimulus. One example is chi. There are chi gong masters who talk about external chi. Sometimes I say to somebody, “You need to go an energy healer. You need a boost energetically to get the process going. Go get acupuncture. Go see an energy medicine practitioner. Go see a therapist.” You need that external push for some people’s bodies. But for most of us who are in reasonably good shape, if we just quit doing the things, especially the stressful thoughts, I’ll hook people up to an EEG. I’ll get them in a nice relaxed state. All the dials and lights are blinking green. They look as though they’re doing wonderfully well on an EEG and a heart coherence monitor. Then I’ll say, “Think one negative thought,” and all the lights in the control panel will turn red. If you think those negative thoughts every day, if you’re watching the news, if you’re listening to negative input from media, then you’re turning those lights red every day. You’re really hurting your body, driving your cortisol up, and degrading your level of physiological function. Quit doing that. I have 30 practices in Mind to Matter. I have 30 things to do: grounding yourself, being in a positive-energy environment in terms of media and people. I have 30 practices. If you do those 30 practices, just ones that will improve your lifestyle, you’re going to make a huge difference in your physical health and your emotional health. JM: Well, I want to congratulate you on compiling such a beneficial resource for all of us, and doing it in a way that’s easy to understand. I mean I read the book, but I wasn’t as compelled to do the eco-meditation. But after dialoguing with you personally, I’m going to commit to it. We’re recording this shortly before 2019, so I hope to enter 2019 flying with regular ecomeditation. The way I can justify it is I can wake up a little bit earlier and still get the same benefits of sleep. Because I’ve been obsessive compulsive about getting really close to eight hours of sleep at night or more. If you can get the same benefits or similar benefits and even more benefits, actually the 2 to 1 [inaudible 1:04:10]. That’s a good deal. You can justify the use of that. The name of the book is Mind to Matter. It’s going to be available shortly, if it isn’t available already. I would definitely pick it up. What you’ve heard is just a taste of what’s in the book. Thank you so much for writing it.
DC: Joe, I’m so glad that you’re inspired to meditate, because you’re a precious human being. You inspire millions and millions of people, and me. I read your newsletter. I just open it when it arrives.
JM: After you meditate.
DC: After I meditate. You’ve moved the needle on people being aware of these things. I so appreciate that. When we do that, when we actually commit and say, “I will meditate,” that’s why I do my talks. I want to inspire people. I was with Tony Robbins’ group. Tony Robbins invited me to address this whole group a couple of weeks ago. I was there and had a wonderful time. But at the end of it, I said, “Who will meditate every day?” Most people in this group raised their hands. I just love seeing people committing and then say, “I will not just be inspired in the abstract. I will be inspired to take concrete action in my life.” You will literally feel yourself changing when you do. That’s the biggest gift that you can give yourself. Release that stress. When you do that, your full human potential starts to shine. All those parts of yourself that have been stuck, all those limiting stories you start to let go of, then you can be. The magnificence of you starts to come through. As you’re hooked up to your nonlocal mind in meditation as well, you get access to ideas, solutions and all kinds of knowledge and wisdom you don’t have when you’re stuck in the level of local mind. Then suddenly, your life becomes way easier. You’re living in synchrony not just with other people around you, but with the whole universe. That’s what I call a synchronous life. It takes so long for people to have, but it’s so easy when you just raise your hand and say, “I will do this.” If you’re listening to this, Dr. Joe’s members, subscribers, please, I’m asking you to raise your hand now and make that commitment to meditating every day. Meditation is free. It’s online. Go there. Grab it. Try it out. You will feel the shifts inside of yourself. But do that as your gift for yourself for the new year.
JM: Thank you for encouraging people do to that. I don’t believe that anyone would deny that there is great value in meditation. There’s just been just so much information. The practical strategy is just how do you do it in a practical way. You’ve provided us with a great gift and resource on how to implement this. Thank you so much.
DC: It’s a great pleasure. Thank you again for the wonderful work you do. We’ll keep on changing the world and see how people shift together. Thank you.
JM: Why not?
DC: Be in joy.
JM: That’s right.